Monday, July 31, 2006

Movesets

If I see another moveset that contains the Canadian Destroyer as one of their finishers, I'm going to throw a brick at my computer monitor. It's not that I don't like the move. I think it's neat in its own way. I mean, sure it's contrived, but the simplest moves, the vertical suplex, the Irish whip, half of Rob Van Dam's offense, they're all contrived.

It's the fact that everyone and their mother is beginning to latch onto this move as a finisher. Of course, this is nothing new. E-fedders and real wrestlers too have all tried to gobble up moves that an innovator brings to the table. It was no surprise that Edge and Rhino both took on MURDERDEATHKILL level spears after Goldberg (who himself was a rip-off of Steve Austin, who in turn was a polished up, fit for mainstream cable TV version of the Sandman) made the move more over than Jesus multiplying loaves and fishes. It even happens within the same fed. Kurt Angle was not the first person stateside to link three German suplexes in a row, and he curiously didn't start doing that until Chris Benoit got to the WWF/E with that in his arsenal.

It's normal to imitate the simple moves, and really, with the number of wrestlers in the e-fed circuits, there's definitely going to be some overlappage. However, the Destroyer is not a simple move. It's Petey Williams' signature hold, and to my knowledge, he's the only guy who does it. The same thing happened with Tiger Driver '91 back in the day. Hell, Misawa didn't even break it out for any occasion other than really, really special matches, and you saw people who list it in their regular movesets, not even as finishers.

In a hobby where we try to pride ourselves on being original, there's so much overlappage of really special moves. Burning Hammer, TD '91, Last Ride Powerbomb, Screwdriver... now I know most of this happens unknowingly, and I shouldn't expect wrestler X from ABCW to know what wrestler Y from ZXYW is going to have in his arsenal. In a way, I'm a victim of my own broadness in scope. I see so many feds that I see a lot of the same things from people who may not even know each other.

So I remember that whenever I see the Canadian Destroyer in a moveset... I know it's not a blatant ripoff of another e-fedder, it's just something we all do; borrow moves we like from other wrestlers. That helps me not throw a brick through my monitor.

Yet that brings up another question... how do you choose your moveset? How should you choose your moveset? Well, I'm a wrestling video game geek, so I have my own method. I like to choose 15-20 regular moves and about 3-4 finishers/specialities. I like to vary my moves up, use combos, try to use moves that aren't seen or that may even be creations of mine. But there are always standbys that I plug in. German suplexes, bear hugs for the bigger wrestlers, chin and jaw breakers. It's always fun to be unique, and in the hands of a skilled matchwriter, it's great to see your moveset come to life.

Some people like fewer moves. Some like to list every move they can think of and have 8 page long movesets. I kinda disapprove of both methods. I think having a moveset no smaller than 10 moves but no larger than 25 (and this is normal moves) is the way to go. I also think you should have a good amount of submissions, and not just finisher grade submissions either. I mean, you need to have restholds.

I know the geeks in us don't ever want to have restholds, but facts are facts. They're necessary for the pace of a realistic match, plus they're a brilliant way to shift your PBP (if you so happen to write in that style) away from what can be dry move-for-move and JR/King shock moment treatments and into having them describe storylines and angles in in-character terms. Realistically, your wrestler would gas if there were no restholds in a match, especially in a PPV setting where the matches run longer.

So yeah, there's my treatise on movesets. Keep it simple for the most part, but be sure to add your own flairs and signatures.

And for God's sake, don't use the Canadian Destroyer unless you know no one else in your fed is using it.

16 comments:

AndyGilkie said...

The resthold thing: There are plenty of ways a guy can "rest" during a match without having to apply a chinlock, but I do agree it is more logical that two wrestlers in a match won't be able to keep going at a fast pace the whole way through.

But the writer shouldn't be afraid to add a resthold when needed, even if its not in a characters profile. I've had wrestlers use moves that weren't in their profiles while I was writing a match. As long as it fit under the kind of style the wrestler has, I don't see the harm in it.

What I am saying, is that a handler doesn't need to add a resthold to his moveset in order for a writer to include it when he feels he needs to.

Anonymous said...

Listen pansy. Who are you to tell me whether or not I can use the Canadian destroyer?

I don't know how many FW'ers have really created new moves. Matches, sure. But moves? We ape what we see on the teley. I think it is allowed. The Destroyer is a cool move, one nobody reading this will get to pull off in reality. Why not use it in a fantasy forum?

I think you want people not to just be rip offs. Like Melton with Flair in '88. lol But we were 14. That's allowed.

When Chad and I started the CSWA we got our move list that wrestlers could choose from out of a PWI (i think.) It was an ad for a play by mail league. You filled out the profile and sent it in. We choose to create our own league, and worked in a dice/point system. We had the move list and gave each one a point value. Arm drag -15. Brainbuster -100. Nothing higher than 100. And with 12 moves you had a point limit that you could not go over. Only 3 100 point moves. etc.

As time went on and we saw new moves on tv, we added them. I haven't made a profile in the longest time. So something like Lindsay Troy's profile, I wouldn't know what half the moves are.

So, yeah...try to be creative when making a move list. Don't just put down Chris Beniot and give him your name. As you make more guys, and your writing/roleplay grows...you'll create your own take. Personally, I don't know what the last Melton match was that ended in his finisher. The figure four.

Rest holds. In a good match they're present.

Now, enough of this movelist babble. How bout a post on whether real wrestling should exist in the fantasy forum. Meaning...should I reference the WWE and Hogan in a Melton promo?

Always hated that. I like to think we're creating our own world not just existing with the real one.

Mat said...

With movesets, I kinda look on things as if you were assigned a number of points and had to pick moves.

My movelist for Wolfenden is chock-full of kicks and high flying, with the "big" moves for each catagory like Cartwheel Corner Kicks, 630's and Space Flying Tiger Drops (which would take a large portion of the points). Basically, taking all my chips and loading up on strikes and aerial.

The trade-off is no Suplexes, minimal submissions, nothing "power", little chaining of moves, etc. Mainly because one thing I hate is a lot of a roster basically loading bios with everything under the sun and being all-round wrestling ***** machines.

A movelist with 630's, SFTD's, all manner of martial arts, extensive submissions, a huge suplex arsenal, etc. just covering their back to be the best at everything just gets old... fast.

So, yeah. My take on a movelist/wrestling style is that strengths need to be matched with weaknesses. A solid striker should worry about being countered by a submissionist, a high-flyer should fear the wrestling/suplexing approach an opponent might take. Not just be all "Ah, BUT, I'm also good at THIS! So HAH!"

An eW match that would maybe only score *** in the real world, but tells of each wrestlers weaknesses/skill deficienies/inabilities, would score way higher with me than a match that was written to be a ***** between two people who basically stacked their characters to put on ***** with no weaknesses.

Lindz said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lindz said...

Steve calling someone a pansy. Classic. ;)

I hate it when people mention real wrestling in their RPs. That's been a big pet peeve of mine for the longest time and I cringe every time someone does it. I've done it a couple times, but that was when Troy was under the Dis mask and I needed to keep people off the trail.

Sam from AWC said...

no one finishes with elbow drops or punches anymore. Ever get a fucking elbow to the chest? Get up from that :P ever take an actual stiff punch to the face? lights out :P

With the fists, I have about 8 signature moves that are pretty unique. The Fists are slow wrestlers, big guys, so their moves are supposed to be damaging, for sure. The way I figure, why fill them up with a trillion moves that will all turn into signature moves because of the sparsity (right word?) of their usage? With faster wrestlers, you get more moves in, but with slow goes, you go for damage. You have to consider that too, you know. The Fists don't like wasting time, they like slamming jammahs!

Anonymous said...

*raises hand* I invented the Dragon's Bite >.>

I think the main problem with movelists is mainstream wrestling, the one most people get the chance to see, is stagnant, and only a few "cool" looking moves exist. Since people think it's a great move, they'll put it on their movelist. If all you really get the chance to see are WWE/ECW/TNA, then your movelist is going to be rather small. Same as if you used to just watch WCW and WWF/E - that's the main reason I described "That's Entertainment" rather than giving it the name used by commentators - the Chaos Theory (as used by "The Anarchist" Doug Williams), to make sure people knew what it was. I only knew that move existed because I'm lucky and over here we have an entire channel dedicated to pro wrestling (The Wrestling Channel), which has a lot of British, American, Irish and Japanese wrestling. If people don't get the chance to see a move in action, chances are they won't know if it's even physically possible - I mean, how many people would've guessed a Shooting Star Press was possible until they saw someone (originally Jushin Liger) pull it off?

-Karl

Anonymous said...

Hey now, we talked about this yesterday, and it's not that I use JUST a C.D., but it's a SPRINGBOARD C.D.!

"Springboard" makes everything cooler: Springboard Hurricarana, Springboard Chopblock, Springboard Eye Gouge, Springboard Back Rake, Springboard Nut Shot, and Springboard Rolling Thunder. (You know, just to name a few sweet moves).

-Dove

Jeffrey Paternostro said...

Canadian Destroyer is the r0x0rz!!!!!

Anonymous said...

What the hell is a Canadian Destroyer?

--Must Die

Garbage Bag Johnny said...

I try to model my moveset around the most impressive things I've done to my friends when we were all drunk.

GBJ's finisher? Some hideous disaster I did on my roommate one night when we were drunk and bashiing on each other. He landed on his hip, and had to walk up stairs sideways- thus the Tragically Hipbuster

The Dumpster Dive? This is what happens when people get drunk and angry at their shitty coffee table, and think it would be a cool idea if someone put them through it.

Diego said...

I remember in my first month e-fedding, my rival threatened to give D! a Canadian Destroyer in a parking lot. I remember thinking "You can do that? That's a pretty awkward move to pull out in a shoot fight."

In any event, The Canadian Destroyer's so 2005, Tom. 2006 has seen people flock to the F5 and the Shooting Star Press.

Anonymous said...

A Springboard F5?

Jason Payne said...

Nothing wrong with the good old Full Nelson Slam. Not many people know that Jason Payne does have a cobra clutch type finisher as well but I don't think it's ever been written into a match.

Anonymous said...

I still say there's an inordinate amount of German suplexes out there.

Anonymous said...

HUH?